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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jaco,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Push and pull can both support the rights
you are describing so eloquently.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Here’s my extremely simple-brained
view of it:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The Web is Pull.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Email is Push.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>No broadly adopted identity system that
lets users assert and prove their identity and share attributes is going to be
entirely Push or Pull. It will support both exactly the way the Internet supports
both the Web and Email.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>(Notice how I’m competing with
Martin already? ;-)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>=Drummond <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
yadis-bounces@lists.danga.com [mailto:yadis-bounces@lists.danga.com] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Jaco Aizenman<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, March 03, 2006 1:32
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Dick Hardt<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Scott Cantor; Robin Wilton;
Brett McDowell; Yadis list; Joaquin Miller<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: Push vs Pull</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Dick, Joaquin, Drummond and all,<br>
<br>
My interest and contribution is less on the technical aspects and more on the
metasystem or human/fundamental rights aspects(*). <br>
<br>
So since (*), read below...(*), specifies that every person can regulate his
virtual personality, my question is if it is possible for a metasystem to
have both...?, and for every person to choose when using them...?.<br>
<br>
Thank you for your
time!. :-)<br>
<br>
=============================<br>
(*) Proposed Virtual Personality fundamental/human right<br>
"Every person has the <span name=st id=st><span class=st>right</span></span>
to have or not to have a <span name=st id=st><span class=st>virtual</span></span>
<span name=st id=st><span class=st>personality</span></span>, where its
presence, content and projection is regulated by each one of them. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>It can
not be used for discriminatory ends harming its bearer. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>The State
will guarantee that the information included in the <span name=st id=st><span
class=st>virtual</span></span> <span name=st id=st><span class=st>personality</span></span>
have the adequate juridical and technical security; with the exclusion of third
parties not authorized that pretend to obtain it. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>The State could use the
content of the <span name=st id=st><span class=st>virtual</span></span> <span
name=st id=st><span class=st>personality</span></span> of the person, previous
authorization of the person, and always just if it is in the benefit and
advantage of the person."<br>
=======================<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmailquote><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On 3/2/06, <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Dick
Hardt</span></b> <<a href="mailto:dick@sxip.com">dick@sxip.com</a>>
wrote:</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Joaquin<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Here is my clarification between Push and Pull:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Pull:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> - The user provides the Relying Party with a *user
unique* Repository locator. (URL or XRI) <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> - The Relying Party queries a Repository to get user
data.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> - The user may or may not be involved in the
transaction.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I consider OpenID, LID and XRI Pull architectures<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Push:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> - The Relying party advertises what data it wants.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> - The user "Pushes" the data to the Relying
Party<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> - The repository does not need to be accessible to the
Relying Party. This allows the data to reside on the user's machine. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I consider Shiboleth, SXIP and WS-* Push architectures<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>....<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>With SXIP, which is a Push architecture, we have a need for protocol
discovery, which lead to my interest in Yadis. Unlike the Pull technologies
where the identifier is for the user, the identifier was for the user agent so
that the Relying Party would know what the user agent was capable of. This is
only needed for zero desktop footprint implementations. Rich Clients would be
able to negotiate capabilities with the Relying Party.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>The original Yadis mandate was for identity protocol discovery. I was
very interested in leveraging existing work, if it did not impose excessive
overhead. The current direction of Yadis seems to be exclusively for support of
the Pull technologies. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Feel free to ask for any clarifications.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>-- Dick<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div><span id="q_109bdae5b0b90e63_2">
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On 2-Mar-06, at 4:38 PM, Joaquin Miller wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>This might be right (someone who uses the terms might could explain
them) <br>
<br>
and it is certainly clear, which is very useful. <br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Okay, let me see if I have this Push/Pull distinction straight.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.<br>
<br>
"Pull" protocols are those that put some data out there to be
accessible via a URL. The data does not change based on who requests the
information. Yadis is such a protocol, since when an Relying Party goes
to fetch the data, there is no specified way to change the data based on who is
requesting it.<br>
<br>
"Push" protocols are those that allow the user to modify the data
based on who is requesting it. OpenID is such a protocol: the data is
transmitted by redirecting the user between the Relying Party and the Identity
Provider, and the user can choose to have the Identity Provider send his or her
authentication information or to cancel the transaction.<br>
<br>
Is that right, or is there something I'm missing?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
If this is what 'push' and 'pull' mean, then your examples are certainly
right: According to your distinction Yadis is pull and OpenID and LID are
push. LID, of course, differs from OpenID; you describe OpenID in your
example of push.<br>
<br>
Cordially, Joaquin <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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12.0pt'></span><br>
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<br>
-- <br>
Jaco Aizenman L.<br>
My iname is =jaco (<a href="http://xri.net/=jaco">http://xri.net/=jaco</a>)<br>
Virtual Rights Institute - Founder <a href="http://www.virtualrights.org">www.virtualrights.org</a><br>
XDI Board member - <a href="http://www.xdi.org">www.xdi.org</a> <br>
Tel/Voicemail: 506-3887222 <br>
<st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Costa Rica</st1:place></st1:country-region><br>
<br>
What is an i-name?<br>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-name">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-name
</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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