Simplifying OpenId

[Johannes Ernst]

Looks like I'm behind with my e-mail...

On Jan 9, 2006, at 10:52, Dick Hardt wrote:

> You may be successful in communicating the answer, but we may still  
> disagree on the approach. :-)
>
> Right now, I don't understand enough about how YADIS does what you  
> hint at to even comment on the approach. I see three possible  
> reasons on why I don't understand:
>
> 1) I am daft and just don't get how YADIS provides a "clean  
> foundation" by reading the documentation
>
> 2) the conversation happened, everyone on the list is aware, it is  
> just not well documented
>
> 3) YADIS is a method of discovering the most appropriate protocol  
> to use, per the web page http://yadis.org/wiki/Main_Page

I guess there are a few other possibilities, but let's not go there.

> "YADIS is a service discovery system allowing relying parties (aka  
> identity consumers or membersites) to determine automatically,  
> without end-user intervention, the most appropriate protocol to use."
>
>
> If (1), then perhaps someone can make it less abstract and real for  
> me.
>
> if (2), then perhaps someone can document it, useful for all
>
> if (3), then why not just document <link rel= ...> tags and each  
> protocol can work on solving all the issues in their own way?

I will take the action item of writing an FAQ entry on why this is  
not a suitable foundation.

>
> -- Dick
>
>
> On 9-Jan-06, at 10:34 AM, Johannes Ernst wrote:
>
>> So I take it, once we successfully communicated the answer to this  
>> question to you, you'll be joining YADIS and help make it a success?
>>
>> On Jan 8, 2006, at 11:35, Dick Hardt wrote:
>>
>>> I don't see the path for how YADIS provides a "clean foundation"  
>>> for building user-controlled identity. Would you elaborate on  
>>> that Johannes?
>>>
>>> I get the protocol discovery, but still think that <link rel= >  
>>> works fine for that.
>>>
>>> btw: if the value of rel was a URI, then the name space issue of  
>>> what the <link> tag is all about is dealt with.
>>>
>>> On 6-Jan-06, at 4:49 PM, Johannes Ernst wrote:
>>>
>>>> Exactly, why do something cleanly if a hack is just half as  
>>>> good? ;-)
>>>>
>>>> But for those on this list who are still puzzled by this  
>>>> question: because YADIS provides a clean foundation to build on  
>>>> top of. Authentication against a website -- like OpenID does  
>>>> today and LID and friends -- is probably somewhere in the area  
>>>> of 1% of what the identity visionaries (Google "identity gang")  
>>>> are envisioning that user-controlled identity will turn into:
>>>>
>>>> Disintermediating eBay would be closer to the 100% than the 0%,  
>>>> and that's only one of the examples.
>>>>
>>>> And one can't hope to build the 100% if one starts kludging  
>>>> after 1% of the work is done. So that's why we all agree that  
>>>> YADIS is needed.
>>>>
>>>> (Sorry if you think that I'm continually stating and restating  
>>>> the very very obvious, I'm an earthling after all, dear Ford  
>>>> Prefect)
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 6, 2006, at 16:37, Martin Atkins wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Johannes Ernst wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let's define yourself a new YADIS capability ... and you are   
>>>>>> instantly
>>>>>> able to participate in the same framework. That doesn't  mean  
>>>>>> that your
>>>>>> new SSO can instantly be used to log into LiveJournal  -- but  
>>>>>> it means
>>>>>> it opens up a defined path for Relying Parties to  recognize  
>>>>>> "your" URLs
>>>>>> and do something smart with it...
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course, the same could be said for adding an element to the  
>>>>> HTML HEAD:
>>>>> <link rel="alexid.server" href="http://www.not-an-openid- 
>>>>> server.com/">
>>>>>
>>>>> Why do we need YADIS, again? :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (I'm just joking, by the way!)
>>>>
>>>> Johannes Ernst
>>>> NetMesh Inc.
>>>>
>>>> <lid.gif>
>>>>  http://netmesh.info/jernst
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> Johannes Ernst
>> NetMesh Inc.
>>
>> <lid.gif>
>>  http://netmesh.info/jernst
>>
>>
>>
>>

Johannes Ernst
NetMesh Inc.

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